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How to grow your business like a weed


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"The weeds if they could talk, they would tell us…'Deal with what is.' Just that. 'Deal with what is.' Which is what they do. They don't get depressed...They just keep going." — Stu Heinecke

Curt Mercadante interviews marketing legend Stu Heinecke, author of the new book, How to Grow Your Business Like a Weed.

Dubbed the “father of Contact Marketing,” agency owner and bestselling author Stu Heinecke has devoted his career to helping clients achieve explosive growth. Contact Marketing campaigns have produced response as high as 300% and an ROI in the millions of percent. Now that’s powerful fuel for growth.

He's the author of "How to Get a Meeting with Anyone" and the follow-up guide, "Get the Meeting!" These books consistently show up on "must read" or "my top ten" business book lists and have received coverage on CBS Radio, and in Forbes, Harvard Business Review, and the marketing and sales press.

In 2019, the American Marketing Association crowned Stu the "father of contact marketing".

In his latest book, Stu introduces Weed Strategy™, a full strategic model based on the strategies, attributes and tools weeds use to grow, expand, dominate and defend their turf. Now that’s a totally unfair strategic advantage.

As he explains, weeds are nature’s perfected disruptors, and they have a lot to teach us about growing our enterprises.


[00:00:00] Curt Mercadante: We'll be live here. All right. We are alive. Well, welcome everyone. This is the freedom media network. I'm your host, Curt, Dante, and I'm grateful you're here and you're going to be grateful. You are here listening today or watching by the way, if you regularly live. To the audio version and our podcast, but you also like some eye candy, not me, but our guests in the topics that we have come on over to freedom media

[00:00:27] And today we're going to be talking about weeds. Now, if you're, if you're in the four 20 camp, it's a different type of weeds. But, um, we had, I think a couple years ago, probably in 2020, I believe, uh, today's guest we had on Stu Heinecke. Um, now Stu is a marketing legend. The American marketing association dubbed him the father of contact marketing because of his work, but also his incredible book.

[00:00:54] How to get a meeting with anyone and then the follow-up, which you're just talking about the pages, the graphics, it's like a [00:01:00] high school textbook or science textbook, get the meeting. Um, he's also a wall. I almost said a world street, wall street, journal, editorial, cartoonist, um, and really a marketing legend in terms of, um, Actually reaching out to people, not hiding behind a button, but actually reaching out to people, contact marketing.

[00:01:23] Imagine that in this virtual environment, now you use virtual tools as well, but you reach out to people Stu Heinecke so happy to have you on the show today.

[00:01:32] I'm so

[00:01:33] Stu Heinecke: pleased. So honored to be with you also, it's such a, such a great thing. I love, I love talking with you. I think we're gonna have a blast.

[00:01:41] Awesome.

[00:01:41] Curt Mercadante: Awesome. Yeah. And your latest book is how to grow your business like a week. Uh, where, where am I at there? There we go on camera. And, you know, you started talking about this months ago. Wow. I know. I actually, I believe you mentioned this two years ago on our podcast. Um, and [00:02:00] so to see it come to fruition and then the read, the book really has been, uh, has been amazing.

[00:02:05] It is an amazing book. I don't just say that. Uh, but, but there's so many things in there and especially, I think, especially we'll get into it, but the segmentation part of the weed strategy really ties into what happened over the last two years, making yourself kind of immune to things like COVID and things like that.

[00:02:25] Um, so, uh, uh, with that, I I'd love to start off by asking you and you tell this story in the. How did you first become enamored with something that most of us just consider a nuisance? We,

[00:02:44] Stu Heinecke: yeah.

[00:02:49] So, um, thank you so much, Curt. So, um, you know, we throw amazing. They really are, but, okay. So what we've lived, we've all grown up with weeds. [00:03:00] They're all around us. We we've noticed, we know what we know what it means to grow like a weed, but I don't know if we really stopped to realize what that means and, and you know, how do they do it and all that.

[00:03:09] So, anyway, one day I was driving down the freeway in, in Santa Monica and, um, So there's, there's six lanes of traffic going one way, six coming the other way. And as it roaring traffic and tires and speeding cars and so on and no place for a plant to take roots. And then also a 40 foot wide concrete media, it's all concrete.

[00:03:30] It's like no plant should be there, except that there are little cracks in the concrete and weeds are so clever. So audacious that they're ready to just pounce and take advantage of that as new gained territory. And so that's what I saw. So I'm driving down the freeway and I noticed this little dandy line sort of bouncing around with the smoggy breeze, just going out of a crack in the concrete median.

[00:03:55] And I just thought that's really interesting. I mean, like we've seen it, we've seen this [00:04:00] millions of times, you know, but, but this time it just, it just struck struck me because I'm just thinking, you know, that's really. How did it get there? Well, of course we know exactly how it got there. It got there because, because Danny lines have seeds that float around in the air, they, they probe every possible opportunity to take root.

[00:04:21] We should be like that in our businesses. Right. So they probe every, every possible opportunity to grow, to gain new ground. And, and then, then I'm thinking, well, you know, it's, it's, it's pretty significant that, um, that it's, there's no, like it's not an apple tree growing out of the crack that we're a petunia because those plants couldn't make it as weeds.

[00:04:42] And it's kind of a, an elite club here among plants. They're really the most extreme of the plants. And, and, and then finally, I just, I just think, you know, when I'm looking at this thing, it looks so happy because it has those happy yellow flowers and those, the seed, the seed pots, all the seeds blown [00:05:00] around and it just looked happy.

[00:05:01] It looked like it was just running its process. Just happy to do it. And like, there was no. There was no, obviously no thought of, well, gee, if this really sucks, I ended up in the middle of a freeway. I really saw myself as living at the beach. You know, something like there's, none of that. It was just an incredible example of what it means to take root anywhere under any conditions and thrive.

[00:05:24] And I just thought, you know, I just, I hope I, um, I hope I live up to that in my own career. It was a long time ago. I was a young guy then, but I hope I live up to that in my career. And it made me curious ever since what are weeds up to? What, how do they grow? What the, we know what it means to grow like a weed, but actually, what are they doing to do that?

[00:05:42] How does it work? And can we apply it to our businesses? And yeah, we can.

[00:05:49] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. And I think there's a lot of lessons in this book, not just for building a business, but your career, your life. I mean, you know, the, the optimism, uh, you know, the segmentation, the, the [00:06:00] ability, and I know you, and I've had discussions and, and, and need to have some more discussions about the great resignation and work from home and you're, and you're, you're seeing it there to some people you talking to in the book about weeds kind of mutating, right.

[00:06:13] We spray it with all these chemicals and they're still there because they've mutated. And almost over the last two years, you've seen people who have mutated in one of two directions or, and use the example of restaurants. They're the ones who figured it out. The ones who create an incredible drive-through strategy for a four-star restaurant.

[00:06:31] And the other ones who said, I can't do anything. And they died. And the ones who, who did it are going to be the stronger weeds next year and the year after, or whatever else comes our way in. Craziness

[00:06:42] Stu Heinecke: in the world. Yeah. It's only those who evolved that stick around and that's, I think that's pretty interesting, you know, so when I set out to write how to, how to grow your business, like a weed, one of the things I was thinking of was, well, you know, weeds are great.

[00:06:56] They're, they're one of nature's great disruptors, but, [00:07:00] but, but also, you know, they they're disrupted all the time too. I mean, we disrupt them with our, with our herbicides and our lawn mowers and all sorts of just digging in our gardens. I mean, they're constantly, uh, disrupted as well. So they have a great strategy for that.

[00:07:17] They, and, and, you know, w I covered in the book of course, but they've got, they've got a great strategy in terms of sort of keeping this even stance, um, this balanced stance so that, you know, I mean, one of the things we know in terms of disruptions is that. And we, um, every, I don't know, every, it depends, but let's say every five years, five to 10 years, we're going to go through another recession.

[00:07:42] If they happen, they happen like clockwork. It's like breathing in and out and yet people end up being and I'm, I've gone through it. My we've all gone through it, but I certainly have, I've gone through it as well, but we ended up being caught flat-footed and by that, and we, and we ended up just sort of just, you [00:08:00] know, our businesses can die in those things.

[00:08:02] If we're not prepared and weeds are prepared and they, and so I, you, you mentioned segmentation. That's why I'm bringing it up because segmentation is one of the categories of, of the weeds model of sort of eight levels of strategy. And one of them is segmentation, which is about girding yourself, girding your, your operation against these disruptions, particularly ones that you know are coming and can anticipate.

[00:08:25] I mean, it's just, you gotta be doing something, but, and that's happening right now, you know? So we, you were mentioning the pandemic, but. If you look at the news right now, all, every other story is about, you know, I think we're in a recession or we're about to be in recession. So recession is coming. We're going to, so what are you going to do for that?

[00:08:44] And the weeds have a solution. It's really interesting.

[00:08:47] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. It's, it's, you know, I'm a big, uh, I read the Tao Te Ching and some ancient texts and, and one of the things that, gosh, whether it's the Bible, whether it's Buddhism, [00:09:00] whether it's, it's almost like they lay out a weed strategy of there's an old Taoists story about this guy, and he's going in the guys training, roosters Cox to fight.

[00:09:10] And he sees the one that goes around. It's like all angry and it's picking fights with the other roosters. He's like, that's the one he goes, no, no, no, he's not ready yet. And he comes back a week later and he's kind of like still defensive and a little proud of himself. And he said, now he's ready. No, he's not ready.

[00:09:25] Finally, he comes back and the other roosters are trying to. Pick up that rooster and trying to, you know, uh, get it to fight and everything. And it just stands there completely emotionless. They said, now it's ready. And you know, like you said, every five to 10 years, it's either a recession or, you know, nine 11, the financial meltdown, COVID something else happens.

[00:09:51] And if you turn off the news, it's amazing. Uh, what happens? You just kind of go forth and, and there's a line in your book by my [00:10:00] mentor. Uh, Joe Pici has been on this show before sales trainer. He, he always urges me. Kurt stopped thinking and he has a line. He said, just stay down. And excited. And I thought of that.

[00:10:12] So there's a line in your talking about irrepressible optimism and it's Alice is a pronounced Hyman or Heman. Alice Heiman says, weeds volunteer in a garden. They just hop right in their present without permission. That's basically what a weed is. And then you write. And if that isn't the very definition of rip, press irrepressible optimism, what is, and my mind not only went to the state, Dominic excited, but it actually went to the old, do you remember the old Peter Sellers?

[00:10:40] Pink Panther movies? Yeah, absolutely. He's an idiot. He's dumb yet. He's so dumb that he doesn't overthink things and ends up like saving the world because he just walks through these things and save them. And I thought we just don't have the news weeds don't have the panic. We didn't don't have the politicians, the anxiety, they [00:11:00] just do no matter what we do to them.

[00:11:02] Stu Heinecke: Well, you know, though, you know, what's interesting about weeds though, is that, is that weeds also don't have emotion. I really don't have a brain, so they don't have emotions. And I think one of the big messages that came out to me as I was just writing the book, formulating all this was that if we could talk to us, they would tell him we waste so much energy, so much time worrying or being upset about something or, or, or let's say being, um, pissed off because I was, I, I should have had this, but I don't have it.

[00:11:34] Or, or being entitled. I there's so many, so many ways that emotions get in the way. And certainly in business, they get in the way it's scary to be in business, particularly as the recession is coming. Right. I mean, that's, that's kind of a tough to deal with, but the weeds ha they, they tell us. If they could, they, I should say if they could talk, they would tell us deal with what is just that deal with what is, which is what they do.

[00:11:57] And they do. If you watch what weeds are up to you, [00:12:00] man, that's all there. Are there a study and in focus because they're just focusing on running their process. If you cut them down, they start it right back up and they keep, they rebuild immediately and they just keep going. They, they don't that, for example, they don't get upset that you cut them down.

[00:12:16] They don't get depressed about it. They just keep going, which is what we need to do. Certainly what we need to do in, in tough times. We need to do it all the time. Actually mean if you've got winter, if you're going to be, you're going to compete in business, you've got to keep going and certainly need to deal with what is an.

[00:12:33] You got to find a way to, I mean, when you it's just so much, it's so easy to get, have your emotions just take, take it. They just, they just run away from you or, or that's not the way I want to put. I just that they, they just take over. That's really what I mean to say. So they just take over and the weeds will tell us no, stop it.

[00:12:52] Because what you really need to do is deal with what is, and it's one of those things like in stocks, they say buy low, sell high, [00:13:00] and it's so obvious, but it's not easy to do. It's not, it's completely, it goes against all instincts to buy low and sell high. You'd get excited about stocks when they're high and they're getting higher.

[00:13:11] Wow. I got to get in it's the worst time. And then when they're, when the, when the stock market has crashed, you think of that. Oh my God. I can't put money in now. It's the best time to get in. So it's, it's counterintuitive, but, but very simple deal with what is.

[00:13:29] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. And then, and the emotions are natural and some people bought them a bottle them up.

[00:13:32] So then they, it builds and builds and builds and then they explode. But other people are like, I have that emotion, but it's like that rooster you got in my face and I'm mad, but I'm just going to, that's it. It's not gonna, it's not going to, uh, Brad Lea, who's a sales. Uh, I do, you know, Brad lay a sales trainer.

[00:13:49] He's got a video about, uh, one time he was in a nightclub with his wife and somebody patted his wife on the butt and people will tell them, you should have punched that guy. You should have knocked him [00:14:00] out. And he said, you know what? If I had done that based on my emotions, what if I hit him? He falls hits his head, dies.

[00:14:07] I go to jail for life. Is that worth it? But when you let, like you said, you let your emotions drive the car. Oh, my gosh. That's certainly isn't like a weed, right? If weeds did that, they'd be gone long ago.

[00:14:20] Stu Heinecke: Yeah. Everything back on that, on the dandy line, in the middle of that freeway, it wasn't letting the fact that it landed in the middle of a freeway, get it down at all.

[00:14:29] So it was running its process with all the, all the aggression and urgency and resilience to all the things that they, the ways that they run their, their process, it was doing it. And I would say that this is kind of interesting because it's sort of, I would say it was optimistic. If a plant can be optimistic, I would say that it was optimistic.

[00:14:47] And the reason I say that is if optimism can be defined, at least for the moment as the lack of depression, the depression causes us to slow things down. [00:15:00] We're not urgent, we're not aggressive. We don't do the things that we know we need to do. Instead we could sort of fall in and collapse on ourselves.

[00:15:09] Because we don't want to do those things. It's sort of a, it's a self fulfilling or, or let's look at the down and it's a downward spiral. It's just this, this, this thing that just continues to keep pulling it down further and further. And psychiatrists will tell you that, that, um, certainly if you go out and you do the things that you would do, like, all they would do is do is just ask, what would you be doing right now?

[00:15:31] If you were more excited and more optimistic, what are the things, how would you pack differently? And then they just like, well, like we got to playing tennis more than go do that, or I'd be working out. Um, I worked out this morning and I just feel great. And I think actually working out is a great way to manufacture optimism and excitement and, and, um, and I think really what they, I guess another one of them messages from weeds would be let your actions lead your emotions rather than the other way around.

[00:15:59] So [00:16:00] don't even our emotions are. They are a form of intelligence and they're not, it's not, I'm not saying that they're unnecessary. That's not, that's not what I'm saying, but I am saying that they, they do get in the way. And when you need to focus on your mission and on your process, it is so much more efficient and so much more effective to deal or rather to, to let your, your actions lead your emotions.

[00:16:24] Because if you get things done, you're gonna be gone. That was great. Wow. I feel great. Those emotions need to be led around rather than the other way.

[00:16:34] Curt Mercadante: And by the way. So on the video version, we have, uh, some folks from our private membership group, the freedom circle, if any of you who are joining, watching live, have any questions, you can type them in the live stream.

[00:16:45] Uh, assuming they're not, uh, you know, profane, which they're not going to be

[00:16:51] Stu Heinecke: in case you didn't still didn't get it. We're not talking about this kind of way to yes. Yeah,

[00:16:55] Curt Mercadante: exactly. Exactly. Um, although, you know, in some states where it's legal there, [00:17:00] those businesses are growing like crazy. Um, you know, so it's, it's funny.

[00:17:05] Since, since I started reading the books since our, and actually going back since our discussion, what was it maybe a month and a half ago, we had a long discussion about the work from home stuff. And, and you were talking about the dandelion story. I find myself not. Uh, thinking about this concept, the weed concept, uh, when I'm looking at weeds, but when I'm looking at other plants and when I'm looking at, so last night we were, um, we saw the new top gun movie, which by the way, oh, cool.

[00:17:34] Blew us away on the first one. Incredible. But there was a preview for the new, I don't even know what's called the Jurassic park movie, the new one that's coming out and it's got Jeff Goldbloom, who was of course in the first one long ago. And he had a line in the first. So I started thinking about this and the first one they said, well, no, we don't remember.

[00:17:52] They only had males. They only had male dinosaurs. And they said, so it's impossible for them to read. And Jeff Goldbloom says, life [00:18:00] always finds a way. So last night when I was watching the trailer, I immediately thought, oh, I'm interviewing Stu tomorrow. And it's amazing. Now, when I. You know, here in the desert, we have some cool plants that I had never seen before growing up Midwest, and then the east coast.

[00:18:15] And one of the plants here is, um, uh, the Agave plant, which are our wild here all over the place. And they're amazing. They almost look like, uh, kind of aloe plants, except if aloe plants were as hard as and sharp as knives, right. These things. But what's amazing is having going through the first, uh, some, uh, winter and then summer is, you know, they grow.

[00:18:39] I mean, I, I don't want to be a whatever here, but basically they very quickly get an erection. I mean, these long eight foot, 15 foot holes that pop out, I mean, over a week, like it's eight feet in a week and they flower out. And so I never knew this. And so we had a retreat and I would say, well, where did they [00:19:00] get the, for the, for the, uh, the sugar, for the, the tequila and everything.

[00:19:03] And, and a guy, my Richard was explaining that's underneath. But this part, which I thought was the flowery part, where you get the tequila, you said, no, that pops up like a, like an antenna. It flowers out. And the reason it goes so high is once over the summer or the fall, those things, it's a seed strategy.

[00:19:23] It pops up and then blows away. And I immediately thought of the dandelion story because when we used to have those in the Midwest, you're, you know, if you didn't spray or whatever, at one point, your entire thing would be, and to be beautiful yellow, and then what they'd be white, and then they'd be gone.

[00:19:41] Those seeds, you couldn't stop them and bring it back to full circle. It's like, no matter what you do, life finds a way. Right. That's

[00:19:50] Stu Heinecke: really clever. Aren't they? I mean, you know, you're in the desk. I don't know. Have you seen tumbleweeds yet? Because that's, that's, that's a seeding strategy as well. Really?

[00:19:59] Yeah. [00:20:00] That's what they're doing. They're rolling around seeding the, I mean, so they think that they must be an annual plan because they detached from their route and then that the whole upper part is rolls around and it spreadsheets that way. Is that amazing? That is the stuff that they do to you and I are both marketers.

[00:20:18] Right? And so, I mean, our, our, what we toil in for our clients is we're, we're creating seeds, these, anything that causes people to become aware of us and form the intent to transact with us in some way. That's that is, I mean, marketing is a big part of that. So, uh, we're always, I guess we're kind of always looking for new recreating, new, new strategies for spreading seeds, which is what the weeds are up to too.

[00:20:43] And you watch what they do. They're just, they're just, I think they're just incredibly, uh, I don't know what you can't. I don't know. You can't say, well, gosh, they're so creative, so smart because you can't really ascribe that to them, but they aren't. They have this collective intelligence that [00:21:00] is just unbelievable.

[00:21:01] And you see it expressed in the way that they will, their process and the way that they evolve and especially the way they evolve to adapt to, to, um, to disruptions. I mean, we're, we were talking a little bit about reception or procession earlier. Um, I would say that maybe a little bit analogous is when, when, um, when some of these plants show, well, I should say some of these weeds show up in farmer's fields with farmers, they really have to control the weeds.

[00:21:30] And so they do a lot of that. They deal with herbicides and there's that one weed that is like, I mean like dandy lions or they're pretty tame that, you know, when we see them in the law and we're going, oh, shoot, I'm not going to get rid of these guys because look at all the seeds that are popping out, then I'm never going to get rid of these, but they're, they only produce 15, well, wholly, but 15,000 seeds per plant over a five to 10 year period.

[00:21:56] But the waterhemp, which is hating these farmer's fields [00:22:00] right now produces almost a hat up to 480 mills. Oh, what am I saying? 4.8 billion, um, seeds per plant. That's still a lot of seeds per plant. Like you'll never get rid of those thing. It's not going to start going away. And then, but then the thing is that because of all those seeds, those seeds have had mutations in them and lots of them and that they produce so many seeds that it creates these mutations and the mutations, or the ways that they evolve around things like Roundup.

[00:22:27] And it, it created, it created, um, immunity to round up and 70% of all the other herbicides used by farmers in just four years. So, I mean, I just think weeds are incredible, are incredible examples that we should be following in our own businesses. And certainly the water have says, put out a whole lot of seeds and that's what we should be doing in our business as well.

[00:22:54] How many ways can we create impressions out there so that, that cause people to become aware of [00:23:00] us and form the intent to transact with us in some way, maybe they're going to become a client. Maybe they're going to follow us, whatever it is. We need to put out a lot of seeds or nothing's going to happen.

[00:23:11] And it just seems like there are a lot of these. Messages from weeds that we, we can pick up and, and it just changes everything. And I, you know, one of the things that Kurt I'm going to be really curious about is you have a business too. And so I'm really curious to know what happens, what will happen as a result of reading the book.

[00:23:29] Well, will your business change? Cause it seems like mine has just because I've written the book, it's like, it's just magical. It just, you end up saying, I need to collaborate more. I need to, I need to pull in more partners. I need to run a, a vine strategy in other words, or, you know what I need to, I need to collaborate a lot more than I am and I need to pull a lot more people.

[00:23:50] I need to create more of a network right now. I can't be operating under one-to-one leverage all the time or at all through all these things that will cause you [00:24:00] to change the way you think, because you start, I guess, because you start thinking more like a weed.

[00:24:05] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. It's easy to get, you know, and this is maybe this isn't necessarily the optimism and feeling down.

[00:24:12] But it's the overthinking a little bit of, of the, and I don't do this nearly as much as people and I'm a behavioral trainer too. So, you know, there's people who are calculating or steady behavior styles and they're slower pace. And if they're calculating, they really, they endlessly, you know, to, to, to quote the funny, uh, George W.

[00:24:34] Bush, uh, butchering of they endlessly strategic prize right. For years. And it's like, they don't take action and it's not necessarily a lack of optimism. It's almost that just, you just overthink, overthink, overthink, overthink. I mean, you've written three books. There's people who have thought about 60 books, but I've never written one.

[00:24:54] And they've had those ideas for that, for that long. And when you think about it, not just the emotions, but just [00:25:00] kind of, you know, I think, I think plants, I think weeds, I'm kind of a, uh, well, I am a health nut and studying. Uh, I'm, I'm mostly carnivore and study even vegetables and how they fight you, uh, oxalates in kale.

[00:25:16] And they don't want to be eaten. Fruits are okay to be eaten. The vegetables don't want to be eaten. And the consciousness there. I think there's some sort of, you mentioned that how it gets there or something, but what they lack is, and maybe it's not thoughts and emotions, but maybe this is all weeds.

[00:25:33] Don't have the, um, the ego to get in the way of an ego. Not just meaning I'm a narcissistic arrogant person, but the ego also, well, if I do this and no one likes me, if I reach out, we were talking about reaching out to podcast, famous people. Well, what if I reach out? And they don't like me weeds, don't they just the seeds.

[00:25:55] I'm just laying seed. I'm putting seeds, I'm putting seeds, I'm putting seeds [00:26:00] and it's it's optimism, but it's also just. And you write about this in the book. It's the focus on process versus kind of like, is this gonna work? Is this not? Uh, and then over time, I guess part of the mutation is the weeds of learn what works and what doesn't.

[00:26:15] And then they, the process gets more efficient, probably over thousands of years.

[00:26:19] Stu Heinecke: Brilliant. Yeah.

[00:26:20] Yeah. I think, I think what you're describing maybe a little bit is, is, um, um, so in the book, so, and, and how to get a meeting with anyone I put together this whole model. That's, that's the thing I was wondering again, what are weeds?

[00:26:35] What, how are weeds, do we know what it means to grow like a weed? What are they doing? Do they have a model? Is there some, are there some common traits to how they operate and what they're, what they're doing? And, um, and it turns out, yes, there's a whole model there. And so I'm going to reveal it. I hope people still buy the book, but

[00:26:55] Curt Mercadante: yeah, I want to ask about it, but I also want, want to give away too much because the weed mindset, [00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Stu Heinecke: but I'm just going to say though, that they're a big part of it is there's a weed mindset and which is so strange to think of.

[00:27:07] There's an, and there's definitely intelligence as well. There's a sort of a collective intelligence, but, and, and there's a weed mindset, which is just so bizarre to think of because they don't have brains. How can they have a mindset, but you, what you, the way that they can have it as you see it in their actions.

[00:27:23] So again, you, you, you see that they're, that they're resilient and aggressive and persistent and urgent. I mean, they just, and they run that process and run the pro their processes really cool. There it's a miracle really, because it's been honed over millions of years, but it can, it can, it can change on a dime to change, to meet any challenge.

[00:27:44] I was just talking about waterhemp and, and developing immunity around up there. Process can change quickly. And the thing that's really interesting about their processes, that they don't, it's just programmed into their DNA. [00:28:00] Th it doesn't have to be explained to them. They just run it and they run it kind of like a, like a computer runs a program.

[00:28:06] So there is no emotion in it at all. They're just focused on getting the job done and they get, and if they get sent back, it doesn't matter. They just focus again on getting the job done, which is which we could learn a lot from. But I just thought that, does that make sense?

[00:28:22] Curt Mercadante: Oh, it does. It does. You know, and, and you know, you're the father of contact marketing and there's pride in your books.

[00:28:30] You share the highlights, but I'm sure just like any sales professional, there's people not responding. And there's nos right after writing this book. And I'd like to ask you, cause you mentioned you've changed some things and the way you're marketing the book using contact marketing and the weed strategy, and you've revealed some of it on LinkedIn and our conversations is great, but from a mindset perspective, Has anything [00:29:00] changed in your mindset from since you've written the book from before you wrote the book in terms of how you're doing business or, and gosh, living your life, you mean from

[00:29:08] Stu Heinecke: one book to the next or before,

[00:29:11] Curt Mercadante: before you diving into weeds and after you diving into weeds?

[00:29:15] Oh,

[00:29:16] Stu Heinecke: well, I mean there, well, so the change has been for me has been happening over a long time because, you know, when I saw the weed and the, the concrete median, that was like, I don't, that was decades ago. And I've been thinking about weeds ever since. Um, and then I've been working on the book for about, I don't know, let's say the past five years, I mean, I had to stop to write, get the meeting.

[00:29:39] So it was, it was between when I wrote, uh, how to get a meeting with anyone. And then now this one, um, and so there was a book that came up in the middle of all that get the meeting, but so really it's, I've been, I've been focused on it for about five years. Uh, But I'll tell you the FA you know, I've got to talk to amazing people.

[00:29:58] I mean, like one of them was the second [00:30:00] interview I did was with T Boone Pickens. And so some of us will remember him and some, some of us won't, but he was, he was one of the original corporate Raiders and a total weed, just a total absolute weed, but a billionaire. And he, he was going around acquiring businesses.

[00:30:16] And when he didn't, he meant, he'd also make, run that a lot, a run up the, a lot of the oil companies. And they didn't actually end up acquiring the, the, um, the business, but their stock, you know what I mean, as they they're attempting a hostile takeover. So they do that by buying stock. And, and then when everyone, when anyone catches wind, but that someone is making a run at the stock like that, then everyone wants to get in because now all of a sudden the, the demand for the stock is higher and the price goes up.

[00:30:45] So even when he didn't, even when he didn't, um, when he wasn't successful at taking over an oil company, They make hundreds of millions of dollars doing it just because they make made the run at the stock. So, you know, you, [00:31:00] the thing is these people that, of course interviewing these people had an effect, but it wasn't really until it wasn't actually until it's really kind of a wild sensation actually here, because it wasn't until I wrote the book and I was getting right toward the end and suddenly occurred to me.

[00:31:18] Oh my God. So this is it. I don't know. I don't know why it didn't occur to me before, because there was a whole, it was all laid out, but it's just. This, it's so simple here. This is what they're up to. And, um, and, and then this is what they're saying. Let's say about, there's a section in the book called scaling, like a weed.

[00:31:37] And it's really important because we're, we're taught to be. We're taught to be self-sufficient, um, at the teacher ourselves to do anything, to take on any challenge and entrepreneurs are especially that way, but entrepreneurs are charged with scaling things. And so that, that, that, that one-to-one leverage, that works.

[00:31:57] We're trained to operate under. [00:32:00] It prevents us from scaling things. So all of the, I, you know, some of them I'm writing on say, oh my God, I've been doing it all wrong all this time. So there are a lot of things that suddenly have changed in my business because of the experience of writing the book. And I can't, I don't know if I can explain it.

[00:32:18] It's almost like a magical effect just by exposing yourself to what weeds are doing. You end up changing your business and it starts growing. It's really amazing. That's amazing.

[00:32:30] Curt Mercadante: And, you know, T Boone Pickens, we were talking about Josh timely, Mark Hunter, uh, Mike Weinberg and Kathy Ireland, you know, uh, and some huge names as you went about.

[00:32:41] Um, uh, well, I guess two questions. How did you identify the people that you wanted to interview? And when you went out to interview them, employing the weeds mindset where the weed doesn't care. If it gets to know the, we doesn't care if it doesn't grow today. Cause it's [00:33:00] just going to keep growing tomorrow.

[00:33:01] Was there any mindset that you had to employ with people who either didn't get back to you that you wanted or said.

[00:33:09] Stu Heinecke: You know, I I'm sure here's the funny thing. I can't remember who said no,

[00:33:19] but I don't know. I'm just trying to think. Did anyone say no? I don't know, but no, no, no, no. There's there w I w I wanted to interview Alice Cooper and his, uh, his manager was just not, he was just never going to cooperate and, uh, it seemed like he took, it takes a pleasure. And I dunno, maybe Alex would have been cool because look at what a branding Maven he is.

[00:33:44] He's he's, he would be amazing to hear from, but, um, you know, but you asked how did I choose the people that I wanted to interview? And so I wanted to get a whole breadth of people. First of all, I wanted to understand what weeds were. And so I interviewed not only gardeners, [00:34:00] but, and botanists, but also weed scientists.

[00:34:02] There are. We had scientists out there who studied of course weeds, but they're looking for ways to control the weeds for, so they work on behalf of agriculture and they were really interesting to talk to because then you get a sense of w what, what kind of siege agriculture is on track. They're there really?

[00:34:23] Because they're running out of options. Like if these weeds develop immunity to 70% of all the herbicides used by farmers, then it's, you know, they're not going to work. It's pretty soon. So that was interesting. But then also just, you know, who are some of the, who are some of the business personalities out there that would be just incredible to hear their story and understand maybe how they, how they saw themselves as weeds as well, because when know, I would share with them what the model was and then they'd say, oh my God, well, the Kathy Ireland was exactly this way.

[00:34:57] And she would be saying, oh my gosh, well, yeah, I've, I've [00:35:00] felt like a weed, my whole life really incredible. And then I was thinking, well, what about the CIA? You know, I mean the CIA and the military, because both, both of those entities have to be very widely. No, and they just, they have to go where they're not invited and thrive takeover and gain new ground and so forth.

[00:35:24] So, so interviewing two four-star generals. So it's really, I'm like, I didn't even know what to call them. You can't when I, when I interviewed Barry McCaffrey, well, so general McCaffrey, um, his first name was Barry, and I'm saying, I, I don't even know how to address you. I don't know if I should call you Barry or sir, or you said you could either call me Barry or your excellence, but it was, it was, you know, I just wanted to get as many broad perspectives as I could.

[00:35:56] So off obviously also a lot of founders. I mean, the Karen, [00:36:00] um, um, ah, Karen Seamus, I think, is it? Yeah, I'm the founder of Comicon.

[00:36:08] Curt Mercadante: We're going to our local Phoenix comic con tomorrow. And so, yeah. Yeah,

[00:36:13] Stu Heinecke: he was, he was really interesting. And he was saying I was a nerd, but I really, I knew that superheroes were going to a comic book superheroes.

[00:36:21] We're going to, we're going to take over one day and he was right and he's right in the middle of it. So he, he has thrived, um, sort of like a weed, but he just kind of showed up with these, these ideas that no one else wanted to listen to at first. And that's okay. I mean, that's very weird. Like isn't it cause he persisted and now he's sort of the king of the mountain for that.

[00:36:41] Um, but anyway, so that I just wanted to get a really broad set of perspectives on. Now that I have this none. I see what weeds do and what their model is. How was it worked out there? How have other people used it? And, and w w how has it shown up in various disciplines and [00:37:00] areas of expertise in business, but then also like outside of business, you know, how do, how does it, how does it work in the military when it's just, you know, the, the, the determinant, the sheer determination, actually, David Patraeus, general Patraeus said that we we'd like sheer determination is, is absolutely essential in, in the military.

[00:37:21] Um, and it's essential for winning wars. I mean, you, you, can't shrink away from, uh, from challenges and that's pretty obvious, but you can't shrink away from it. You can't be discouraged that you just can't allow yourself to be discouraged. You just got to move, you have a mission move deal with what is, so it's all very, very weak.

[00:37:39] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. And, and, you know, there's some weeds that are invasive before you even know they're there. Right. All of a sudden they're there and they kind of were under the radar. And, uh, as you were mentioning generals, I interviewed, uh, actually it was in person February, late, February of 2020. He was the former chief China's strategist [00:38:00] for the department of fence.

[00:38:01] Uh, he worked for the joint chiefs. Um, he was let go for ringing the warning bell of China, infiltrating 5g networks for nefarious means and all that. But, wow, it's very interesting because we actually talked about this Corona virus thing and it was like late February and he started talking about China and everything, but it dawned on me.

[00:38:23] He's got a book that is, um, and I read it in the lead up to everything happened and it's, it's a scary book. Um, but it's called a. Stealth war, how China took over while America's elite slept. Right. And it goes through this whole thing. And in 2049, I'm sorry. In 1949 mile, uh, basically released the a hundred year plan that by 2049, they are going to be the hedge fund.

[00:38:51] They're going to be more powerful than the U S now they're on track to be, I think by that 0.3 times the size economically. Right. But how they employed it [00:39:00] is a weed strategy. They, they kind of went under the radar. They didn't, they didn't, they w they didn't flower as where this big, powerful thing, they got us to donate our technology, nuclear technology to them.

[00:39:15] Then they went out and basically had a weed strategy of building people's, uh, 5g infrastructure. They call it the belt and road initiative. They're building roads, they're building factories. And they would say, Hey, we're going to give you a bunch of cheap cell phones. You can give them, you can be the hero to all your people.

[00:39:32] We just want the data and they've done this. And it's like, it, it reminded me, uh, you know, at the time it did. But now I, I, it's a total weed strategy where all of a sudden that you remember the old road runner cartoon, where Wiley coyote would be standing there and he'd be looking around and road runner will be sawing, uh, the, the, the, the, the circle around him.

[00:39:52] And he didn't even know it. You realize it was too late. That's what China's done. That's kind of what a weed does, right? Like you move in and it's all about. And it's like, [00:40:00] wait a second. Now I can't, it was like you moving into your house and, and those, uh, the Berry bushes that you right behind you, it's like, now it's too late.

[00:40:08] Like we didn't catch it. Right. Like, what do you do now? And it it's dawned on me from a, from a, uh, not just a business perspective from a foreign policy perspective. There are some weed strategies that have about,

[00:40:19] Stu Heinecke: yeah, absolutely. You know what, so, I mean, I would say within the weeds, the weed mindset, one of the, one of the traits in the weed mindset section is, um, is aggression.

[00:40:30] Um, and it's free. It comes right after, right after, um, uh, urgency. And you might think, well, those are the same things, but they're not, um, urgency is about think urgency is about how you create importance around something. And, um, but, but aggression is at least in the weeds case, I think is I think that manifests in how they just, they just, they're just very aggressive at running their process, the processes, everything.

[00:40:55] Um, and again, it's been honed over millions of years. I mean, flowering [00:41:00] plants showed up on earth, according to the, to the fossil record. They showed up on earth about 145 million years ago. And we've got to think some of those were. Probably all of them, but that's, let's say that's when they started, uh, when they appeared on earth.

[00:41:15] So there, they had a very long time to hone their process and, um, and you know, the processes, everything that they do to grow faster than all the other plants, not to spread further than all the other plants and to, to have multiple growing seasons that keep going well beyond when everything else is, is Browning, Browning out or going into senescence, all those things, everything that they do, it's all, it's all just reduced to a process that they run automatically.

[00:41:45] And so aggression, I think, in, in their form of aggression is that they run that process. Like they just run it like crazy. And so you don't see it. I mean, when you look at a weed, you don't see it growing, but it's running its process [00:42:00] with great aggression and it's very stable. This is just like you described as it's kind of a stealthy thing.

[00:42:06] You just, you don't realize it until like, oh my God, look now, look, it's all, it's all over the place. Or now look, that company just went. But then my competitor let's say who was acting like a weed suddenly went way beyond us and they're just running their process aggressively.

[00:42:25] Curt Mercadante: It is. I was reading the book.

[00:42:27] There's a lot of similarities between weeds and water, right? When you go and see water, it just runs downstream and you could put boulders against it, but here in the mountains, some of those boulders just get worn away and, uh, and the water doesn't get all emotional about, oh my gosh, there's a Boulder.

[00:42:43] It just keeps running in traditionally, maybe up until, I don't know what the year is a human. I mean the extinction or near extinction event that we've had. And we, at one point we were reduced to 10,000 humans on earth after the Mount Toba, they [00:43:00] think this volcano is 75,000 years ago and they find humans buried under the ice.

[00:43:05] You know, that there was some extinction event comment about 10,000 years ago that humans were weeds. Maybe not so much anymore, depending on what mutations take place and, and, and some of those things, but, uh, I guess the weeds just keep mutating to be stronger. I'm not sure about humans. Well, I

[00:43:25] Stu Heinecke: mean, a lot of what we see weeds doing is they're, they're going through through evolution and we were, wow, we're a wild, we're a wild species.

[00:43:36] If we extend our evolution, when we do all kinds of bizarre things. So certainly one of the things we do is we extend our evolution through technology right now. I mean, we can communicate all over the, all over the globe and beyond we can do all kinds of, we fly. We do all kinds of things that we're not really otherwise prepared to do.

[00:43:55] Based on our evolution. We don't have wings, you know, we don't, we don't travel [00:44:00] a hundred miles an hour or more, uh, you know, we don't do those things. We extend our evolution quickly through technology. And I would say also through healthcare, which is also a form of technology, but we live longer than we should or would otherwise.

[00:44:14] Um, and so we're, yeah, we're crazy. We're a crazy species, but we could still, you know, when we're just talking about, about growing a business or grow really almost growing, uh, growing your career, I'll probably growing anything there. I think that weed strategy is that sort of, that theory of everything, it just brings it all down and distills it all down into this very quick, very succinct essence.

[00:44:38] And it's the theory of everything about growing anything. So it still helps us, even though we're this crazy, we aren't very creative. We're nuts, you know, and one of the things, you know, God, you know, one thing I wish we could learn from weeds, or I hope we do because you know, the book is just coming out.

[00:44:54] Maybe we do learn from weeds is that part of their, part of their mindset is that they're huge [00:45:00] on, um, on collaborative. They do everything for collaboration and we'll look up, look at how it works. We're so fractured. And it's how, how wasteful that is. If we were working toward common goals, man, we'd just, wow.

[00:45:14] Watch out. We'd just be just, we were probably our, the, our nature's biggest disruptive force, but so maybe it's not weeds, but, um, but if we were, if we, if we just took that from weeds to, to maybe to deal with what is, but then also to collaborate, just to understand how important it is, how important all of us are to each other and how, just how much more we can do when we collaborate, how, what we can achieve when we collaborate, we can see it.

[00:45:44] I mean, you do see that, but we're not collaborative. Broadly, I'd ask, I'd probably the point of civilizations to collaborate, but we're not doing it willingly or, or broadly, or I don't know. There's so much rancor and just sort of [00:46:00] just the, the antithesis of, of collaborations. So I help people pull that from weights as

[00:46:04] Curt Mercadante: well.

[00:46:05] Yeah. It's it's I think some of that goes back to ego, right? It's it's the, this versus that everything's gotta be good versus bad and you have to take a side, you have to, we just don't do that. We just keep growing

[00:46:17] Stu Heinecke: and they work. They don't take us. They're all on the same side,

[00:46:21] Curt Mercadante: the London, right. It's not like, oh, uh, Stu grew his business, which means he's taking away from me.

[00:46:27] No, it's like, let's all grow together. Let's all. Um, you, you mentioned technology and, and speaking of some weed companies that you obviously mentioned the book, and this is probably more of a, a, uh, one that's kind of captain obvious. Right. But, but you look at Amazon and a few years ago, Uh, I don't know, maybe five or six years ago, Jeff Bezos made a quote that everyone likes to share, but I actually disagree with, uh, and he said that your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room.

[00:46:58] And the longer they go on and [00:47:00] Amazon keeps becoming more and more of a valuable brand money-wise and people rely on them. And the more and more people hate Jeff Bezos and Amazon, like, right. It's like, it's like Walmart and Amazon, everyone complains about them. But they, they just keep growing like weeds.

[00:47:18] And to me it's like, well, people don't say very nice things about Amazon when they're outside of the room. And yet their brand keeps growing because they have a weed strategy and everyone now needs the seeds. Everyone goes to Walmart, they'll complain about Walmart and China, and then go do all their daily shopping there.

[00:47:34] And it's like the same with them.

[00:47:36] Stu Heinecke: Like, you know, you know, what's going on with Amazon and it's what goes on with every week. Like weeds never do anything without an unfair advantage. And Amazon has lots of that. And that's really a big part of the big point of weed strategy in how to get a meeting with anyone.

[00:47:54] Is that how to grow your best? It's like the [00:48:00] biggest part of the strategy is developing or cultivating unfair advantages. And I can't think of a better example than in, in modern times than Amazon look at all the things that they have introduced. I mean, it's so easy to shop on Amazon so easy to find them.

[00:48:16] There are reasons for all this. I mean that these haven't just, they're not by accident. You can buy anything on Amazon. And then now, um, let's say, you know, we've, we're now we've just come out of two years of lockdown, essentially. Uh, whether it's mandatory or voluntary, but basically we've been locked down and locked in our, how our homes for two years.

[00:48:39] And how do you shop? But through Amazon, I mean, they're just the default, the default choice. And I think that, you know, as companies become so powerful and you can't avoid them anymore, I think that causes resentment as well. But you still, you still, I think that's maybe what you're describing. You still shop with them, but.

[00:48:59] [00:49:00] They F they make everything about shopping less. They just create, they eliminate more and more friction. They make it fast. And then they're the ones that are there. They're the ones who first talked about delivery by drone. I, I of, I hope they don't do that because it's going to be noisy for what?

[00:49:18] Curt Mercadante: Yeah.

[00:49:18] Yeah. Around here. And the gets like I'm in my backyard trying to read or meditate. And I got one up ahead, you know, which makes me angry, which defeats the purpose of the meditation.

[00:49:31] Stu Heinecke: But I, but Amazon is probably one of the best examples of. Uh, company acting like a weed. And I don't mean just like, I don't mean just a company, but it's a whole collective, remember I was saying, you need to, you need to scale like a weed. You need to move to collective scale. And they've done that in a huge way.

[00:49:48] I mean, look at that. I believe they were the ones who started affiliate program, affiliate programs. Right? Um, they're, they're the ones that I think they, they, um, I think they patented one. [00:50:00] Checkout. Oh, really? That's not one click anymore, but the patent did that. They, they, um, they have, they they've involved.

[00:50:09] Um, essentially all of the storefronts, all of the stores in the world essentially are on Amazon. You can get anything on Amazon. And, and if you're, I guess a member of prime, then you can get, it was free shipping and you get it within two days. And that's amazing. I mean, all of this stuff, these, these, these are things that people are used to now, but these were all innovations that caused Amazon to grow.

[00:50:34] Not just like a weed, but like a whole species. They're like a whole species of a, we have a weed and other they're, they're just, they're everywhere.

[00:50:43] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. Because like you mentioned, because of the impact they have on consumers, consumers who hate them, you know, you, you may look at a weed and say that's ugly.

[00:50:52] You know, farmers try to do everything and the weed just keeps growing. It doesn't care how ugly you think it is because their roots are in that impact [00:51:00] and what they do. So there's a lot of people who think Google is ugly and they keep running ads on Google. You know, they, they think Amazon's an ugly weed and they keep shopping through them.

[00:51:08] I'm not saying they shouldn't, but they're growing like a weed because they've planted roots that make it so easy for you to use that. It's like, you can spray the herbicide, you can do all these things. Everyone complains about some of the social networks. They try to come up with other ones that just don't take root.

[00:51:24] And you know, some of these.

[00:51:25] Stu Heinecke: Yeah. Well, you know, I, I just, and I want to say that, that when I'm describing the, when I'm describing Amazon or an, or, or anyone else really, I mean, um, space X is another one. Elan is another one. Um, I think lately my. Compliment that I can give someone is man, you're just, you are a total weed.

[00:51:47] So I'm going to stand up again and show you my t-shirt because this is kind of a cool thing. We're we're putting this together. Can you see that the total, total Rita word, um, teaming [00:52:00] up with the, with NASDAQ entrepreneur, the NASDAQ entrepreneurial center to, to make that an annual award for entrepreneurs who are total weeds, who are outpatients and they they've created this explosive growth through these just incredibly audacious thinking.

[00:52:17] And, um, and it's going to be a blast. And, and if Amazon was, I mean, I don't know if Amazon will win the, they were the kind of obvious like space X Orpheus is an obvious one and, um, Elon Musk, but I don't like, you know, when you watch space X or Milan's development process for Starship right now, it's, it's been on hold.

[00:52:38] Most recently, but you just watch what I watch on YouTube and they keep sending these rockets up and then they come down and they explode and they said first, they just looked like grain elevators flying around. And then, then they started to look more and more like rocket ships, like something from buck Rogers, perhaps.

[00:52:55] But then after a while he was in. [00:53:00] It goes up like, I dunno, 14 miles and then does a belly flop and then comes down and sticks the landing. And I'm just like what they did with the whole Falcon system booster system that we're so used to seeing now that we just see them come down and land on it on either, either a pinpoint target on the ground or, or on a, on a drone at sea.

[00:53:21] And we're so used to them just doing it now. And, but that process, that development process is a lot of try fail, try, fail, try, fail, try and succeed, and suddenly, and they're so audacious in their goals that suddenly they're doing something that no one's ever done before. And like no one else can do. So all of they're all very, very we'd like on there.

[00:53:44] And I would say they're both, they're all total weeds. Maybe I'll maybe an honorary word. I don't know.

[00:53:49] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. Well, I mean the smart, I remember when, when, when jobs first announced the iPhone, I thought it was. Like, I don't want that in my hand. And then I went into an apple store and I played with it and I was like, oh my gosh.

[00:53:59] And then I [00:54:00] saw other people playing with it. And there's a, are you familiar with Tyler Cohen? He's an economist at George Mason university. He's written, uh, he was named the economists of the year. He's got a very interesting take on some things. Um, he had a podcast, very popular podcasts and a book and someone wrote in, and this is going to make sense, but says, have you ever been tested whether or not you're on the autism spectrum?

[00:54:29] And he took offense and the guy said, well, cause I am. And I think you might be. And I think it might be a key to your brilliance and how you just, you just kind of go forward and forward and you don't criticism doesn't matter to you and everything. And so he writes, he wrote a whole book about it. I can't remember the name of the book, but it was, it was basically like I went and got tested.

[00:54:48] I think the. So we did this whole book about, uh, I don't know if at that point Elan was really around yet, but Steve jobs, bill gates went into all these people who kind of their [00:55:00] companies grew like weeds and made a case that all of them might be on the spectrum. So actually when you go back to the ego thing and you go, have you ever seen Ilan go and people try to break through while he's talking, it just doesn't register to him.

[00:55:12] And then you look back on when the, the experts told them that's $80 million to build a single rocket. And he said, no. And he went and he just went and put together on the open market to buy the pieces of the rocket and then hire people. It's almost like maybe there's some part of that ego. Not there.

[00:55:28] It's like a, it's almost a superpower. Um, I

[00:55:32] Stu Heinecke: wonder, I don't know. Perhaps we could be, we'll have to create a weed spectrum.

[00:55:39] Curt Mercadante: My wife and my wife's a speech therapist. So she works with a number of people with who have autism are on the spectrum. And, and she's like, oh my gosh. Yeah. That's so interesting. It's almost like the things that bother us just don't bother them. They just, they just go and, and, um, and, and, uh, well, I, I digress, but

[00:55:58] Stu Heinecke: I just, [00:56:00] I wonder because I'm thinking, well, I don't, I don't, I don't know if I'm optimistic.

[00:56:05] I don't think I am, but, but there you get to this point, we just say, this thing has to exist. I have to make this things. Yeah. And I, I know, I see that with what I'm going to see that just in speeds and what, what Elon, any of these people that were just spoken about Ilan, Steve jobs, Jeff Bezos, and so on. I mean, they're just not stopping.

[00:56:25] I mean, it's, if they have something that just has to, it just has to happen. And so. I certainly understand that feeling. I'd go for that too. I'm not on there. Definitely not another scale, but, but you know, you just get to this point where it's like, I gotta make this thing happen. I can't do it. I was like this life, my life can't go on without making this thing happen.

[00:56:45] And you surely see that with, let's say Ilan. I mean, he's probably the most, the most dramatic example right now. And once the FAA clears the, the orbital testing, we'll see a lot more of this blossoming with, um, [00:57:00] with space X and star ship. That's I mean, that thing's going to be amazing when he finishes or when he gets to the point where he wants to, I don't think I'll ever finish it, but it's going to take us to Mars.

[00:57:09] It's going to make us a multi-planetary species. It's going to, um, it's going to allow us to, to fly from, let's say LA to London in 20 minutes, those kinds of things, but it's, it's good. It's good. It's going to be amazing.

[00:57:21] Curt Mercadante: And every step of the way he's had people, I think buzz Aldrin people in the space program, there's a 60 minutes episode where you lawns actually crying because there's heroes are saying, this is, this is irresponsible.

[00:57:30] He's not the government, he's not doing it. And yet he just kept, he just kept going, like, yeah. You know?

[00:57:41] Stu Heinecke: Sure.

[00:57:42] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. They just keep growing. So I'd like to ask you, you're you're in, in the book, you, you kind of, uh, you, you call your shot, right? Like here's what I'm going to do to market this book you need. And you, you, you lay out some of your weed strategy. You've laid it out on LinkedIn. I mean, some of the things, you know, you sent Jocko, Willink Jocko.

[00:57:59] If you're [00:58:00] listening. I know you're probably listening to my podcast, put the shirt out, put the shirt on. Um, so what are, what can you lay out? What, what are some of the weed strategies, your, or what is the weed strategy and the weed tactics you're employing as part of that strategy to market your book?

[00:58:18] And in the process, I mean, the books, part of the weed strategy for your business. Right. So

[00:58:23] Stu Heinecke: do you, do you remember the last line in the book? I don't know if you do. Cause I was, I knew that I wanted to use this as the last line before I wrote the book, but I was saying those weights in your yard, they're working for me now because, um, because they are, because I think actually the, a big part of my, the weed strategy behind the book is.

[00:58:46] There's this huge, unfair advantage. I have that I've, I'm tied into weeds. Nobody else's writing about weeds as a, as a, you know, that's something you should pay attention to for, for growing your business. Um, and, [00:59:00] and so, you know, and they're, they're just, they're everywhere in the keep renewing every single.

[00:59:04] Or I guess every fall in the Southern hemisphere, but they're, they're just everywhere. Everybody knows what it means to grow like a weed. Um, that's all of that is built in, but the thing that's really built in is weeds are everywhere. They're all around us. So you just go outside and you'll get, you'll be reminded of it.

[00:59:21] If you go outside after hearing this, this interview, I can guarantee you you'll start saying, you'll start looking at weeds differently and you'll be saying, huh, that book, I kind of get the hope book. And then I hope you'll be saying I've got to leave a good review.

[00:59:36] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. When I read that, I was like, all right, stews, get students living rent free in my head.

[00:59:40] Now every time I look at a weeds,

[00:59:44] Stu Heinecke: well, that is definitely part of the weed strategy for the book. Yeah.

[00:59:47] Curt Mercadante: And you're, you're employing a number, not surprisingly, a number of really interesting contact marketing. Plays right. And I see people, I see people now on LinkedIn, which is incredible. It's not even you [01:00:00] posting, they're posting pictures of the package that they got from you with the paper and the seeds and the book and everything, which is you're letting them pollinate or not pollinate germinate, right.

[01:00:12] For you, they're spreading the seeds. You're just attacking.

[01:00:16] Stu Heinecke: Yeah. The seatbelts. Well, you know, so we're going to do some interesting things with the book. Uh we're we're starting to set up, set up brand partnerships so that, um, the book will become a contact device. I mean, it's kind of mixing all of it together, but it will become a contact device for, for a sales team.

[01:00:36] So it'll be packaged in some cool stuff, some cool packaging that causes people to just say what that is. I've never even seen me. What is this? And so the package you're referring to, I can show it. That's great. I'm here to describe it because people are listening, but so it's this box with, with all this weed?

[01:00:57] Well, this antique, they're actually [01:01:00] antique botanical renderings of weeds of weed species. So it's all over the box. And then when you open it up, there's, um, the book is in the books inside and there's a card that's not in there, but then there's this seed, the seed pack. And that's actually my favorite full of, I guess the book is my favorite part, but otherwise the seed pack is my favorite part because, you know, it's, it's like any seed pack you'd find in a nursery or a hardware store.

[01:01:28] Right. Right. Especially right now, we're doing this in the spring time. And, and so there are actually Daniel dandelion seeds in here. And on the back, it explains a little bit about the book, but then it also says, it says, if you, if you, if you really don't know what it means to grow like a weed, if you really need to see what it looks like.

[01:01:45] All right, that'd be the contents on your lawn and watch what happens. Or you could use it as a bookmark, which is really what it is. So a little package, you know, even, even the, even the packing material, it looks like it's wrapped in. [01:02:00] Yeah, so it it's, um, it's a cool piece of work. So we're sending those up as devices that a sales team will have available.

[01:02:09] They'll just, they'll just go onto a web portal and they say, okay, I need this. I need one set so-and-so and a card will be, will be handwritten card will be written up from that person. Robotically and, um, and it will be packaged and some cool packaging. They'll go out the next day by FedEx and, and it'll go with the messages, Hey, we really care, but I really care about your growth.

[01:02:33] And I think you'll really enjoy this book. I think you'll really get a lot of insight from it. Um, but I'd also like to invite you to meet the author. So we, we have, uh, we have, uh, a round table on zoom coming up next week. So I'd like to invite you to be my guests on that round table. So we've got this whole system set up around the book and it'll be, um, you know, how to grow your business, like a weed showing up in people's hands and then meeting the author and then [01:03:00] giving the sales teams a great device to create contact.

[01:03:04] Wow.

[01:03:05] Curt Mercadante: Wow. Have you had any, uh, any, any, w we'll have to w th as we record this, the book isn't officially out yet, right?

[01:03:12] Stu Heinecke: No, it hasn't quite we're. We're a little bit prelaunch.

[01:03:16] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. So when this airs, the book will be out, um, and, uh, we'll have to come back and update it once you have the portal and all those things and some of those things.

[01:03:24] But have there been any either for, maybe for you personally on some of the outreach, cause I know you're also doing some cool contact marketing with podcasters and other, any, any cool stories that you've experienced yet from your efforts, your weed efforts with the book.

[01:03:38] Stu Heinecke: Um, I w people love the t-shirt.

[01:03:43] Um, so w when I'm, when I'm reaching out to some podcasters, um, like Joe Rogan or, or, and I've not broken through to them yet, but, um, I don't know. I think it'll take some time and, and I'm sure it will happen. Um, Well, once they see me on this [01:04:00] program, I'm sure that that

[01:04:02] Curt Mercadante: this will be the key, you know,

[01:04:07] Stu Heinecke: but look, the thing I love being on your podcast, because this is a, it's a fun time. Good way to, to explain how weeds can, um, can change our lives. Luckily, it's such a strange thing, but somehow if you read the book, but how to get, how to grow your business, like a weed, you will grow your business like a weed.

[01:04:26] It's weird. And Kurt, I'm sure this will happen with yours as well. I think the more you look at the weeds and I mean, you're talking about weeds that I don't know about. I mean, I know what the Gavi plant is, but. I'm not in the desert. I don't get to see what, what your weeds are doing. And they're going to show you these incredible lessons.

[01:04:44] And you're going to take, it's sort of like if you know, Doug bird, that Douglas Burdette who hosts the marketing book book podcast also was one of the people I interviewed for the book. So he gave a great, a great quote. That's up at the front of the book. One of the, among the many quotes [01:05:00] that, um, that we'd strategy is nature, SWAT analysis.

[01:05:04] And I believe that people are going to be gone. They'll read this book and they'll hear about the book and they'll start and just start discussing. And what's your seed strategy. What's your seed bond strategy and so on. And I think they're going to notice what weeds are up to all around them, and it will cause them to grow.

[01:05:20] It's weird. It causes you to grow your business. It's this weird,

[01:05:25] Curt Mercadante: well, Stu I am, uh, I'm going to employ weed strategy. Uh, the first thing I got to get over my, uh, my fear of details, like you hold up the dandelion seed pack and I'm like, Oh, now I gotta go. I gotta go do, uh, you know, and I, you know, I'm not, I'm not in any way crafty, but I, you know, it's a lot easier when you just start researching things.

[01:05:46] And, and I've done that before. I mean, I remember sending baseballs to people with logos on them and things like that. It's actually a lot easier once you just do five minutes of homework. Right? Exactly. Yeah. So, uh, well, Stu it has been a pleasure. I [01:06:00] really want to thank you for coming on the show.

[01:06:01] Stu Heinecke: What I, well, I I'm, I'm honored.

[01:06:04] I, um, it's a pleasure to be on with you.

[01:06:06] Curt Mercadante: Yeah. And we're going to, um, we're going to share the links to the book. Uh, I'm going to promote the book. I will leave you a great review, but by the way, we talked about this, but I have like my weird little, I don't know what it is, but my little mental thing, like when I get a book, I love real books instead of Kindles and everything.

[01:06:26] I love the feel and the smell and pay and all of students books. Textbooks. I don't know what it is, but, uh, but it's, it's a, if you're into the actual structure of a book, uh, it's great. But also more importantly, the content is incredible. The information is incredible. Um, Stu thank you so

[01:06:45] Stu Heinecke: much. Thank you very, very much.

[01:06:48] And don't forget to be like a weed.

[01:06:51] Curt Mercadante: Yes, yes, absolutely.

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